Protecting Your Peace & Knowing Your Limits

Introduction: Welcome to Mind Pilot and the Importance of Boundaries

Speaker 1 0:02

Good day. Welcome to Mindpilot. This is Dr. Jana Price-Sharps. Today we have a special guest on, and her name is Dr. Mary Oganasian. And Mary has been working with me for a very long time and has seen both first responders and the spouses and significant others of first responders. And so today we're going to start a process, and we'll probably have a number of episodes together, talking about how to deal with relationships. So in any relationship, you kind of have to start with boundaries, and sometimes that means telling people no, which doesn't always make people happy, obviously. But the only thing that we can control is how we show up. We can't control how the other person responds. But if we continually not to hold space for ourselves, then we start resenting ourselves. If we continually don't put ourselves in our life equation, then we really start getting frustrated with life. And usually that frustration starts leaking over into how we're communicating with our significant other, our spouse, even our children. So today we're gonna start with probably the hardest but most important topic in relationships. It's boundaries. And so uh, can I call

Navigating Conflict: How to De-escalate Heated and Sarcastic Conversations

Speaker 1 1:47

you Dr. Mary? Yes, of course. Thank you for having me on. Of course. So you've worked with a lot of spouses at this point. And we've worked with a lot of couples together and seen families grow and we've seen families disintegrate. And so when we start talking about boundaries, probably the easiest, well, I don't know if it's easiest, but one of the first places to start is when you're having a conversation and the other person starts to kind of wind up and get angry or get snarky, right? Sarcastic comments. What are some ways that the other person can begin to prevent it from escalating more and kind of setting that boundary?

Speaker 2:41

Definitely. Well, um, a lot of my couple session and working with spouses, I do cover um Dr. Gottman's horseman. And I think that's some of them to talk about, right? The time and distance and how to communicate. Like, I need some space. Um, let me take that time to come back and we'll talk about it. Because when you have two people who are not at their best state to finish the conversation, um, how to step away and come back, because it's just gonna continue to escalate and that negative cycle is just gonna keep going and going and going. Um, and you need safety in that conversation, and you do have that right to step out and then come back and finish it in hopefully a healthy way. Um, and being direct, assertive, but kind. And when you set that boundary of like, I hear you, I want to finish having this conversation with you, but we most certainly can come back to it when we're both in a better state of mind.

Speaker 1 3:44

Absolutely. Because when people are heated up, they're going to just keep heating each other up. And usually when that happens, people say things that later they regret, they can't take back, um, and the damage is already done. And so taking that uh time and distance to recalibrate. I think also maybe making statements like, you know, if one person isn't heated up, but the other person is heated up, so what are some things that the person that isn't heated up, what are some things that they can do to either de-escalate or set the strong boundary?

Speaker 4:25

Right. Um, so definitely with those I statements of like, I feel like, you know, right now um things seem a little bit heated up. Uh, what do you think about us coming back to this conversation in like 20 minutes? Or I feel like this conversation can be better had when there isn't sarcasm or anger or belittlement. I I care about our relationship, but I do think that it's gonna be best that we take a little bit of a break and come back to it because otherwise that person is just gonna continue to be sarcastic or checked out. They might just completely be disengaged from the conversation as well, which you know, we call that stonewalling and it just like completely withdrawn, not communicating at all, um, show no interest in resolution. So it's really important to emphasize like, I think we can come back to this. Um and when you do, talking about what it is that you need from one another. And when things are not going well, you're not gonna be in that position to even consider that.

Emotional Safety: Setting Boundaries When Feeling Attacked

Speaker 5:33

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 5:35

And I think hopefully, when you say that, it either de-escalates it or you know, stops the conversation so you can have a little bit of a break. Um, the other thing that I uh have found helpful in some circumstances is to be able to say, I truly do understand that you're angry and I'm hearing you, but I also can't participate in a conversation where I'm feeling attacked. And so I'm gonna take a break, and if we can come back and and sort through this, that's great. But I'm not gonna stay involved in a conversation where I feel like I'm I'm being attacked, and right now I'm feeling pretty attacked.

Speaker 6:26

Have you ever used that? Absolutely. Um I see that boundaries get tested every day. And boundaries work best when you're consistent with them and you kindly remind them of that. And so many different forms of boundaries, right? Like psychological slash emotional, physical boundaries, spiritual boundaries, uh, financial boundaries. I mean, the boundaries go, but boundaries definitely go on. And relationships, intimate relationships test that every day. So you have the right to feel safe and tell them that that's a that's a boundary violation. I feel disrespected by this, or I don't feel um like I have a say in this. How can we compromise and meet in the middle? But yes, absolutely. I use that one often.

Speaker 1 7:20

And I think if people have been together for a long time and maybe started out with habits that weren't the best, uh, and they're now they're trying to kind of reformat their relationship, so to speak. Sure. Um, you know, I've seen people where they have a habit of calling each other names or making snide comments, or, well, we all know you're never going to be able to do that kind of comments, that very sarcastic, condescending comments, which I agree. I love Gottman and the Four Horsemen's of the apocalypse. And he talks about how the most toxic thing for marriages is that condescending kind of attitude, that contempt. Um, so you know, setting those boundaries and saying, you know, I am working on myself and I am no longer comfortable um with you calling me names or making those kind of comments to me. So I am gonna stop this conversation for the moment. Maybe we can come back at a later time and talk this through. But just no, that's not okay with me. One of the things that I have found is I will, if somebody's working on themselves, I will tell them to have that conversation with their significant or their spouse before they get in an argument.

Mutual Growth: Preparing Your Partner for Change and Doing the Work Together

Speaker 1 8:49

So the person actually knows what's coming.

Speaker 8:51

Does that make sense? Absolutely. And no, I'm 100% agree with you because the more prepared you are, um, everything happens with the action. So you see it in each other when you're actually listening and open to what your significant other is telling you. Because the whole part is healing or processing or closing out the argument or what's going on. And if someone doesn't take that initiative and the action, I mean, that can be detrimental otherwise to the relationship. We could we know and we see couples change, they grow, but it's like, how do we continue to grow on the same path? And that's gonna take communication. That's gonna change, that's gonna take understanding um our future plans together, goals, what works for us, what doesn't, and how do we re-evaluate that? But if that conversation's not happening um, or the actions towards that, I mean, you can't have one person kind of doing the work. It has to take both of them to want to and to to actually do it. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 9:58

What feedback would you give to somebody if one person is maybe they're in therapy, the other person isn't in therapy?

Speaker 10:08

Oh yeah, that's that's tricky because you have one person who, as uncomfortable as it may be, is open and vulnerable to, and maybe fair to say, excited to grow and make those changes. Because it could be hard, it could be challenging, but that fits in with the action part. That's what the brain is gonna need, right? To to um make those consistent efforts, where the other person who may not be engaged in therapy or willing to do the work is either gonna stay where they're at um or possibly get worse. And so um that is going to warrant some conversation of like where are we at? Like what can make both of us um work towards that? And if they're not, then that might take some re-evaluation of where the relationship's at, because um I have not seen successful relationships be one-sided. The ones that can be salvaged and are and they grow and they're they're great, is the ones that do it together. And that's a beautiful thing in itself.

Relationship Pauses: Setting Expectations When Taking a Break

Speaker 1 11:18

Absolutely. I think at least from what you and I have seen together, and we've seen quite a few couples together, that people can change, they can get better, they can learn new communication skills because communication is a skill. It's not something that most of us were taught, and some of us grew up in homes where the communication was just horrific, right? And so you learn it over time, but it takes both people kind of working towards that. Now, there are times in life where for whatever reason people need to take a break. They're trying to reevaluate, they're trying to figure out what they're gonna do, and you know that that is what it is. However, I think it's really important to think about okay, if the other person needs a break and and you're not really wanting one, how long are you going to, you know, kind of work through this with that other person while they're taking this break? I mean, if it's a week, that's a little bit different than two years, right? And so thinking about your own boundaries there.

Speaker 12:32

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, if the couple is deciding to take a break to work on things, it's like I I would encourage them to identify and talk about like what are our expectations with this break? Are we taking care of what we need to? And then we come back and we see how we're doing. Um because if we continue to stay in a potentially unhealthy or toxic or chaotic relationship, we may very well just kind of lose ourselves in that. But you have the opportunity to um try and hopefully that they're gonna try with you, but we can't control what the other person. And that's a big thing. I think we want to fix that or we want to make them happy. And well, no matter how hard you try, you're not going to change that. They're going to need to be the ones to make that change.

Speaker 1 13:23

And I I think that's at least from my perspective, one of the hardest things in relationships

The Oxygen Mask Rule: Why You Must Focus on Yourself First

Speaker 1 13:29

is that we have to be healthy and comfortable in our own skins before we expect other people to meet us there, you know, and and so if anybody's listening to this and they are having, you know, some relationship problems or issues, making sure that you're dealing with your own stuff, you know, rather than trying to fix that other person. It's so tempting to want to fix that other person and give them the list of things that they need to do to work on themselves. But really, we can't fix anybody else. We can just fix how we show up.

Speaker 14:07

Absolutely. Absolutely. And not lose our own happiness trying to make somebody else happy. Because a lot of the times that happens. We put all our energy into others and making other people happy that we forget how that impacts us.

Speaker 1 14:24

Yeah, and and if you consistently don't show up for yourself, again, that goes back to what I was saying earlier, that self-resentment of why am I not taking care of me? And I'm not saying take care of me and screw everybody else, but you know, you it kind of starts with you. It's like putting on the oxygen mask when you're flying, right? You've got to kind of take care of you first before you can can be healthy in a relationship.

unknown 14:53

Yes.

Speaker 14:54

Because there's great things that come with a relationship, but there's also it's practice, um, it's time, it's dedication, it's energy. And so yeah, you need to be at the at a prime place to be able to give and take. Because if it's just a constant take-take feeling, that can get very tiring and frustrating because it feels so one-sided.

Speaker 1 15:19

And I think part of the process is also giving yourself grace,

Communication Tools: Giving Grace, Asking for "Do-Overs," and Knowing Triggers

Speaker 1 15:25

but also giving the other person grace. You know, we have a really great couple that will come and speak at our retreats every once in a while. And they'll say, wait a minute, can we have a do-over? We need a do-over, you know, and it just cracks us up. But it's they both start laughing and then they go, okay. And so it's kind of they'll say something that's a little snarky or it comes out wrong. But when they say that, then the other person goes, sure. And so then they'll say it a different way. And they've gotten much better over time of being able to figure it out of how to say it that the other person can hear it. Really, I think that's one of the most important things about communication is just because you like communicating in one way, whatever that way may be, if the other person isn't hearing it because they can't, they shut down, they get overwhelmed, they get flooded, then your words are going to be meaningless.

Speaker 16:26

Right. And when couples know, if if they even know each other's triggers, I mean, one, we got to start with knowing our own triggers and communicate it to our significant other. But the goal is to understand it and not use it against them. Um, so when we're in a position to be able to communicate to them what the trigger is, it's like, okay, how do we both support each other, not to specially maliciously do it? I mean, accidents can yes happen, but like to support one another in that rather than it be used against that. Because that leads back into the unhealthy relationships. Um, when you know somebody gets hurt by that or and it's being used uh against them.

Speaker 1 17:11

So being able to articulate the boundaries, being able to say

Episode Wrap-Up: Summary of Setting Boundaries

Speaker 1 17:16

it nicely so the other person can hear it. And if you're going to start setting boundaries in a relationship, tell the person before you start setting the boundaries so they kind of know what's what to expect. Doesn't mean they're gonna like it necessarily. They probably won't. Um, but it at least gives them an opportunity. And then if you do set the boundary, they'll they can go, oh, that's what they were talking about, right? You know, so those three things I think are really very helpful.

unknown 17:49

Yeah.

Speaker 17:50

Any other thoughts? I think you really did a great summary there because uh the the ones we love most often can be the ones who push our boundaries. Yes, that's true. So um yes, kind reminders, but still at the end of the day, being very firm and consistent with that. Yes.

Speaker 1 18:10

And remember, they can't read our mind. No. So they may be stepping on your boundaries and have no idea that they're stepping on your boundaries. So you it's up to each one of us to communicate that. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Ogan Nation. You are just an amazing clinician. So thank you for all your help and great discussion about boundaries today. Thank you again for having me. Abs olutely.